Otto v. State

Hotten, J. Albert Carl Otto ("Petitioner") was charged in two separate indictments with three counts of second-degree rape of S.L. 1 , the mother of his three children. S.L. accused Petitioner of raping her on January 1, 2015, January 8, 2015, and February 2, 2015. In November 2015, Petitioner was tried in a consolidated jury trial in the Circuit Court for Montgomery County. The jury found Petitioner not guilty of the January 1, 2015 charge, guilty of the January 8, 2015 charge, and a mistrial was declared regarding the February 2, 2015 charge.

Petitioner was sentenced to a term of seven years incarceration and five years of supervised probation. The court suspended all but the 280 days time served. Petitioner also must register as a Tier II sex offender. 2 See Md. Code (2008 Repl. Vol., 2017 Suppl.), § 11-704 of the Criminal Procedure Article, ("Crim.

Proc."). Thereafter, Petitioner noted a timely appeal to the Court of Special Appeals, which affirmed the trial court in an unreported decision. Otto v. State , No. 2758, SEPT.TERM, 2015, 2017 WL 2839150 , at ⁹ (Md. Ct. Spec. App. July 3, 2017), cert. granted , 456 Md. 253 , 173 A.3d 154 (2017).

Petitioner now asks this Court to consider whether the trial court erred in allowing the State to admit redacted portions of telephone calls Petitioner made to his mother while in pre-trial detention, but denying Petitioner's request to admit the remaining telephone transcripts pursuant to the common law doctrine of verbal completeness. 3 For reasons to be explained, we shall affirm the judgment of the Court of Special Appeals. FACTUAL AND PROCEDURAL BACKGROUND Petitioner and S.L. dated for several years and produced three children from the relationship. Petitioner and S.L. did not live together and were not married at the time of any of the alleged rapes. S.L. lived with the three children in a two-bedroom apartment in Montgomery County.

S.L. did not speak English, and was not a United States citizen. Petitioner and S.L. discussed living together at Petitioner's home in Frederick County, Maryland; however, those plans were abandoned when S.L. learned that Petitioner was residing with another woman for the duration of S.L. and Petitioner's relationship. Between January 8, 2015 and February 2, 2015, Montgomery County police officers responded to S.L.'s apartment multiple times, where S.L. reported forcible sexual intercourse between her and Petitioner. On February 2, 2015, D.L., the seven-year old daughter of Petitioner and S.L., placed a 911 call stating that "my dad is hurting my mom." Thereafter, police arrested Petitioner on February 3, 2015, and later charged him with three counts of second-degree rape.

On the first day of trial, the State called D.L. to the stand, anticipating that she would testify that she witnessed Petitioner hurt S.L. Prior to trial, D.L. was interviewed by Maggie Newton, a forensic interviewer employed by Montgomery County Child Welfare Services. During the videotaped interview, D.L. described how she watched through a crack in the door as Petitioner hurt S.L. D.L. told Newton that her father hurt her mother on more than one occasion. Notwithstanding the recorded interview, D.L. testified that she could not remember telling Newton that Petitioner hurt S.L. To refresh her recollection, the State played recorded portions of D.L.'s 911 call, but D.L. indicated that she still did not remember speaking to Newton. The State showed D.L. a still image from the videotape of D.L.'s interview with Newton, which depicted D.L. sitting in an interview room with Newton.

After seeing the videotape image, D.L. testified that she recalled sitting with a woman, but did not remember the conversation. Outside of the presence of the jury, the State played an hour of the videotape to refresh D.L.'s recollection. The jury re-entered the courtroom and the State asked D.L. if she now remembered telling someone that Petitioner hurt S.L., to which D.L. replied, "[n]o. My dad did not hurt my mommy." Thereafter, the State moved to have the entire video admitted into evidence as a prior inconsistent statement pursuant to Maryland Rule 5-802.1(a).

Petitioner initially objected to the videotape's admission in its entirety. However, after hearing the testimony he withdrew his objection to the videotape's admissibility, maintaining objection to certain portions of the video recording being redacted as improper evidence of other crimes, wrongs, or acts. See Md. Rule 404(b). Ultimately, the videotape was admitted into evidence and played for the jury.

On the second day of trial, Petitioner requested that S.L. assert her spousal privilege in front of the jury. Petitioner was released pre-trial with the condition that he have no contact with S.L. Petitioner, however, violated the no contact order and married S.L. prior to trial. At trial, S.L. took the stand and proclaimed, "because of the fact that I am married to my husband, I can use that [marital] privilege and not to testify." Without S.L., the State offered various police officers as witnesses, who testified regarding the statements made by S.L. as a complaining witness, including S.L.'s original 911 call reporting a rape on January 8, 2015. On the fourth day of trial, the State sought to admit excerpted portions of telephone calls that Petitioner made to his mother while he was in pre-trial detention.

Consistent with common practice, these calls were recorded. 4 Prior to trial, the State compiled a series of audio excerpts from the recorded calls and prepared a redacted paper transcript. Over Petitioner's objection, the trial court admitted the redacted paper transcript of the calls ("the redacted call transcript") into evidence as State's Exhibit 96 and the excerpted audio recording of the calls was played for the jury. During Petitioner's case-in-chief, he sought to admit the non-redacted paper transcript of State's Exhibit 6 ("the non-redacted call transcript") pursuant to the doctrine of verbal completeness. For analytical purposes, the non-redacted call transcript is included below in italic and the redacted call transcript was admitted as follows: [PETITIONER]: All right.

Well, today is Sunday. You have time for that. They won't do anything today. Definitely, look, you need to get in touch with [D.L.] and [S.L.] and take them out grocery shopping.

Take some money over. You need to get an idea of where her head is at and if she intends to try to help with all of this, okay? [MOTHER]: How is she going to tell me that? If I try to do that- [PETITIONER]: Mom, you'll get an idea. Just spend the time with her, okay, and get them out grocery shopping, take some money over. [PETITIONER]: Mom, I am worried, I am worried about myself and my best chance is for her help out. [MOTHER]: I know that, honey.

I know that.... Are you still there? [PETITIONER]: Yeah. [MOTHER]: Okay. Well, talk while you can. [PETITIONER]: All right. Let me just-please do that....

I'm worried about the kids having food and I'm worried about where her state-of-mind is...and where it's going to stay. [MOTHER]: Oh, I don't think, I didn't get a chance to ask. I was (unintelligible). I think they're going to keep Harry. [PETITIONER]: They are. I, I talked to them.

But please do that, take some money out of my wallet and, you know, three or [four hundred,] take them grocery shopping, give her the rest of the money, okay, and, and try to spend some time with them and get some idea where her head is at and what she intends to do to help me with this. * * * * [PETITIONER]: No, I have not been able to- [MOTHER]: Huh? [PETITIONER]:-get hold of my attorney. Tom won't answer the phone. I talked to Maria. Again, mom, if it works out, see how often the kids come there to the house and, you know, so be it.

I need to keep an eye on them. [PETITIONER]: I'm trying to find out through Maria and Harry, her attorney, if she's going to be willing to marry me still and- [MOTHER]: Well, we'll you haven't talked to Lauren or your dad, right? [PETITIONER]: I just talked to [L]. My dad is busy on a conference call, supposedly. So- [MOTHER]: So did she, did you tell her I said that they were going to discuss with Harry today about you marrying her? [PETITIONER]: I didn't, we didn't get into that. I just told her how important it is to me that my family open up and accept them right now.

They're my kids and, and to do what we can for them-and I want them- [MOTHER]: Did you tell [L] you loved her? [PETITIONER]: No, it's just- [MOTHER]: You need, you need to. [PETITIONER]: If you can talk to Maria today and find out if this is going to happen or not, okay? [MOTHER]: Maria and Harry? If she's willing to marry you? [PETITIONER]: Yeah. * * * * [PETITIONER]: Stay close to her and the kids. [MOTHER]: Huh? [PETITIONER]: Stay close with her and the kids. [MOTHER]: I know that. Why do you think I was trying to get her up to Frederick? [PETITIONER]: I know. [MOTHER]: You know, I'd like to see my grandchildren, too. [PETITIONER]: Yeah, keep working on it [MOTHER]: Yeah. And the [A] thing, issue has gotten so much better. [PETITIONER]: Yes, she has. [MOTHER]: Much, much better.

I was surprised when I called yesterday. She was in the parking lot and said I'm here. Shall I come in and [go potty]? I said she's so- [PETITIONER]: You can, you can- [MOTHER]: (Unintelligible.) [PETITIONER]:-probe, probe, probe [D.L.] for information when you're with them too-and- [MOTHER]: Do what? [PETITIONER]: I said probe [D.L.] for information when you're with them too. * * * * Automated Speaker: Call number 59969874, inmate ID 1502305, date 2015, 3/7.

Time 083006. Dialed number [redacted] from station 8113. The time is 8:30 a.m. No three-way calls are allowed.

Any attempts to affect these types of calls may result in disciplinary action. Press 1 to place a-please enter your PIN number, followed-after the tone please say your first and last name. [PETITIONER]: Albert Otto. Automated Speaker: Please listen carefully as our menu options have changed. For calls within the United States-your account balance is $41.50.

The cost of this call will be an operator service charge of 85 cents, excluding taxes and other applicable fees. The time limit is 15 minutes. Hello. You have a call at no expense to you from- [PETITIONER]: Albert Otto Automated Speaker:-an inmate at Montgomery County Detention Center.

To accept this call, press or say 5. To refuse this call, hang up now. This call will be recorded and subject to monitoring at any time. Thank you for using IC Solutions.

You may begin speaking now. [PETITIONER]: Hello? Unidentified Speaker: Hi, A1. 5 [PETITIONER]: Hey. Unidentified Speaker: How are you holding up? [PETITIONER]: Not good. Unidentified Speaker: I have been running over all these scenarios in my head of what I should have done yesterday, but I'm so sorry.

We heard this was the worst judge possible and I guess it played out to be true. [PETITIONER]: Yeah, he was pretty nasty. Unidentified Speaker: I, I'm sorry I didn't get your call last night either. Are you there? [PETITIONER]: Yeah. Yeah.

Sorry. Yes, I am. Anyway, I'm very sorry you guys have put out so much and they stuck me right back in here. Unidentified Speaker: You know, I don't think, I don't think the judge really heard that it was sort of a double jeopardy, that there was an error.

I don't, I think it all got confused. [PETITIONER]: Yeah, my attorney did a terrible job. Unidentified Speaker: Yeah, I wanted to say that too, but I mean it could still turn around on the 20th because what that was about was the CVS incident. So it, it doesn't seem fair to punish you twice for the same incident, the same, you know- [PETITIONER]: No, because that was already litigated at the bond hearing the other day and my attorney didn't even point that out, you know? Unidentified Speaker: He mentioned it once because he did mention the high bail set because of it, but then the conversation just went in all these other directions and that didn't remain the focus. [PETITIONER]: No, no, he really lost it and I don't, I don't know what to do.

And, you know, I'm sorry I'm- Unidentified Speaker: What? You did what? [PETITIONER]: Huh? Unidentified Speaker: I didn't hear what you said. [PETITIONER]: I said he really, you know, lost it. He let the whole thing lose direction and he didn't, didn't keep it on focus and- Unidentified Speaker: He didn't. [PETITIONER]:-you know, instead of pointing out, you know, again and again how she wasn't supposed to be the one there, I didn't violate this intentionally, it was supposed to be her sister, you know, and, and the State's Attorney said that the detective said that they caught us together inside the CVS.

That's not even true. As soon as they showed up, I was arrested right at my car and, by one of the detectives. By the time that female detective showed up, I was already in handcuffs by those other detectives. And, and- Unidentified Speaker: Yeah.

Yeah. [PETITIONER]:-that one was gone. Unidentified Speaker: Well, you see that- [PETITIONER]: That woman never even saw us together. So that's, you know, and the CVS security footage would show we were never in that store together and that's perjury on the State's part. Unidentified Speaker: It sure seems like false, false statements in court.

It's, it's unbelievable how bad the, your luck is on this. I just can't believe it. [PETITIONER]: I know. I was talking to my attorney about me getting the CVS security footage or something because I mean that would prove the State lied on that and we weren't there together. Unidentified Speaker: Right. [PETITIONER]: You know?

Unidentified Speaker: I think, I think there's, you know, a lot of the things that we can do on the 20th and we'll all certainly be there to testify and hopefully this will get straightened back out. [PETITIONER]: Yeah, I- Unidentified Speaker: But- [PETITIONER]:-I don't want to- Unidentified Speaker: Say it again. [PETITIONER]: No, if I'm going to get out on the 20th, you know, I don't want to lose my home and stuff in the meantime. But if I don't get out on the 20th, then there's not going to be any point in maintaining things. But, in the meantime, I don't want to lose all my stuff. And if there is- Unidentified Speaker: Well, I was counseling your dad to, you know, hold everything until the 20th and I think he's, I think he's listened to that.

I think he wants a plan on the 20th, but I think, I think he's going to hold together until then. [PETITIONER]: Yeah, he's, he's not wanting to help me very much. I don't know, I just don't know who else to turn to. But- Unidentified Speaker: What do you think is going to happen bill-wise between now and the 20th? [PETITIONER]: The rent is due on the 15th. That's 1,700.

That's the only major thing. My electric bill at some point. I don't, I don't know. My cell phones, I guess, are due.

And like I said, that, unfortunately, is a big bill this month just because there haven't been, you know, the last weekend in January before all this, you know, stuff even happened, I had gotten a new, a new cell phone and then I've had to get two new cell phones because of the, the police. Unidentified Speaker: Right. Well, I think it takes 30 days to evict, you know? So the, the rent, you know, they can't just on the 15th decide to evict.

There is a process. [PETITIONER]: No, but, you know, my landlord, you know, I've been there eight years. He's a very good guy to work with, but I hate to- Unidentified Speaker: Can you call him and talk to him or no? [PETITIONER]: Not yet. I'd like the rent to be covered one more month, at least, at least if I'm going to get out on the 20th. If I'm not going to get out on the 20th, then I can start making plans to pack all my stuff up.

But, you know, I told Maria in the meantime and my, she's helping my mom, my daughter's mom. I'm wanting to move her and the kid into my house if something-my best chance out of this is for my family to help her out because she, you know, if she helps recant all this stuff if, if, you know, she's left in an entirely abandoned position right now too, then she's just going to want to cooperate with the State to get the State's assistance and that's going to screw me. So- Unidentified Speaker: It sure is a, it's a, it's a cluster [explicative]. [PETITIONER]: It is. But- Unidentified Speaker: The whole thing. [PETITIONER]:-but my best chance is for her and the kid to move into my house at least for- Unidentified Speaker: But that can't happen because you're not allowed to have contact with her. [PETITIONER]: Well, but I don't even know if I'm getting out on the 20th yet or not.

Unidentified Speaker: I, I think that the, there was an error made, like you said, and it, it just hasn't gotten, the court hasn't had any chance to hear your side of anything until your attorney got five minutes yesterday it seems and he didn't do a very good job. [PETITIONER]: He didn't do a very good job. Unidentified Speaker: So the, you know, we, on the 20th you'll have a chance to at least begin to tell the court system what, you know, what, who you are and what you're about and that this is not you. I mean I, all night long I've been laying there thinking, oh my God, if I just stood up and took a chance and said this, that maybe he would have heard me or let me speak, but he wouldn't- [PETITIONER]: No. Unidentified Speaker:-he wouldn't, he was very much in control. [PETITIONER]: Yeah. Yeah, the judge was very, very nasty.

Unidentified Speaker: And that he's a very hard judge. I mean we knew that as soon as we knew his name, Tom knew that I should say. And I think Tom as [sic] on the fence about whether to try something yesterday or get an extension, I don't know what that would have done, but you know we were convincing him that it's very, very simple and very clear and he tried and he made an effort, but- [PETITIONER]: Yeah, but he did a terrible job. Unidentified Speaker: And, yeah, I kind of agree with you. [PETITIONER]: He didn't know the case.

Unidentified Speaker: Right. No. [PETITIONER]: I don't know what to do about- Unidentified Speaker: No, we, we helped him 30 minutes before, an hour before that and that's about all he had to go on. [PETITIONER]: I tried calling him several times before and he just, he never answered his doggone phone. Unidentified Speaker: Uh. [PETITIONER]: But, anyway, I- Unidentified Speaker: I, I'm just sick about this. I think on the 20th, I think if we can all hold out until the 20th, maybe we can get this, at least this piece of it straightened out and I, I'm just praying they keep you at the detention center, but I don't know if they will or not. [PETITIONER]: They're not.

I'm- Unidentified Speaker: No one knows. [PETITIONER]: No, I'm being, I'm being moved up to Clarksburg. They already said that. They're going to move me to the jail. Unidentified Speaker: Will we, will we have different access to you up there, do you know? [PETITIONER]: Less, I believe.

I don't know. I really don't know. I think I'll get a lot less phone time then. So it's going to be really hard for me.

Unidentified Speaker: For you? [PETITIONER]: Yeah, it will be harder for me to call people and find out what's going on, but I don't know. If you guys are, you know, I hate to keep leaning on you, but if you guys at least keep some of my stuff afloat for the next month, then if I find out what's, whether I get out or not. Unidentified Speaker: How will we find out about the electricity? Will your mom be able to find the bill there in the mail pile? [PETITIONER]: Yeah, I guess so.

When my attorney comes to see me, I'm going to have to write down. I guess passwords, how to get out, you know, I keep all my stuff on my AOL account, you know, under favorites and payable stuff. So I have to write down my passwords. Unidentified Speaker: Right.

Right. Right. [PETITIONER]: Right and on- Unidentified Speaker: Gosh, if only we're allowed to start writing things in there. I don't understand how that cannot be something you can do. Oh, I'm so sorry, you know?

This is so unfair. I, I just can't imagine-and we're all struggling with how do we help her when she needs to feel the consequences of what, what she's done. [PETITIONER]: No, but at the same time if we don't, you know, I hate to say it, but if we don't, my friends and family don't help her out, she's going to, you know, turn back to the state which isn't going to be good for me. So I talked to Maria yesterday about-talking to her, about getting her into my house. One way or another, you know- Unidentified Speaker: I don't know why getting into your house is the answer.

I mean she needs food and, and medicine. Where is she living? [PETITIONER]: In a, she's renting a room in Gaithersburg. I was just thinking, you know, I don't- Unidentified Speaker: And you've been paying for this for how many years? [PETITIONER]: Since- Unidentified Speaker: Like what is, what is the support she's been used to? [PETITIONER]: I've probably given her 1,500 a month for the last, I guess since my daughter was born. Unidentified Speaker: I don't know how you manage it.

Well, I think moving her into house is a big mistake, Al. I mean where are you going to live when you move out? Where, how- [PETITIONER]: I don't know. You know, her and, her- Unidentified Speaker: Does she- [PETITIONER]:-working on an affidavit so that we could be around to have contact and maybe that will be in place.

I just- Unidentified Speaker: I'm not sure they're working on that. I tried to bring that up at lunch and I'm not sure-I'm not, I'm not sure how that's working. I don't know. Maybe the answer is to, to drop Tom and have Maria be your primary if that's possible. [PETITIONER]: Yeah, I don't know.

And, see, Maria insisted on how much better Tom is and Tom didn't do a great job. I don't know. I feel like he's just, he's not into the case. You know, I asked him specifically before hiring him if he had time for this case and he's assured me it would be a priority for him, but all he keeps talking about is money.

We have a specific payment agreement, but he made it sound like at the hearing yesterday like he wasn't going to want to continue to represent me. Unidentified Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, that was very unfortunate and I, sadly, he, he's anticipating that you're not getting out and if that's the case, then how on earth, you know, can he get paid? But that's all, that's all, you know, down the road.

That's after the 20th. We need to stay focused on the 20th and I wanted to tell you that I emailed Star, so don't worry about that, and there's something else. [PETITIONER]: Yes. Unidentified Speaker: And- [PETITIONER]: They mailed me the bills, they're sitting there at my house. Sorry, Jan. Unidentified Speaker: Al? [PETITIONER]: Yeah, can you hear me?

Hello? Unidentified Speaker: Hello, are you there? [PETITIONER]: Yeah, I said sorry, Jan, about all the, you know, hopefully I'll get out of here and get to build your garage. Automated Speaker: One minute remaining. [PETITIONER]: We're going to get cut off here in a minute. Can you hear me, Jan?

Unidentified Speaker: Yeah, I'll have to figure out how to, yeah, I'll have to figure out how to get some more money on this thing, but the delay is really hard to talk to you about and, Al, is your vision okay? Your dad was worried about you getting another hematoma. I mean are you-are you okay health-wise? [PETITIONER]: That would be [a] relief right now. I just- Unidentified Speaker: Well, I'm sure- [PETITIONER]: Yeah, I'm sorry to lean on you guys so much right now, but please try to help coordinate all this and I just don't know what else to do.

Unidentified Speaker: I'm trying, I'm trying, Al. Hang in there. Let's, let's, let's aim for the 20th and we'll do everything we can for then. But I don't think you can possibly move her in your house.

I think that's a bad, bad idea. [PETITIONER]: Okay. Unidentified Speaker: And so does everyone else. Hang in there, okay? (End of recording.) * * * * [MOTHER]: She doesn't, she doesn't think any contact would be a very good idea. [PETITIONER]: Let me just wait. [MOTHER]: Okay. [PETITIONER]: Yeah, my-(unintelligible), tomorrow, you were telling me to tell Harry [ ] that's going to be her attorney that I've been incarcerated and he needs to let her know, okay? [MOTHER]: Yeah, I'm going to talk to your dad tomorrow.

We should hire him? Because your dad backed off from it. [PETITIONER]: No, he told me he would. [MOTHER]: Yeah and I think he talked to him and I get into it over the phone line. [PETITIONER]: Okay. He better not- [MOTHER]: I'm- [PETITIONER]:-he better, he can't back off. [MOTHER]: I'm going to, I'm going to push him to hire her, to hire him. [PETITIONER]: Well, if he doesn't, that's going to be horrific. [MOTHER]: Yes, I know, I know. I, I got that information from Maria tonight.

I got a lot of information from Maria tonight. [PETITIONER]: Okay. [MOTHER]: I understand it. I understand, okay? That's why I'm going to push your dad tomorrow to hire that attorney. [PETITIONER]: Yeah, if he doesn't, this is going to be real bad, mom. [MOTHER]: Yes, I know. [PETITIONER]: Okay. * * * * [PETITIONER]: The best chance I have is for [S.L.] to recant all this. The only way she's going to be in the mood to do that is if my family takes care of her right now..... [MOTHER]: Yeah, that's why your dad is paying for her attorney.

Not, no, that's not why. He's doing that... [MOTHER]: She already, she already approached your dad, your dad told me, and, and asked him to support her financially and he was upset about that and he told her no. [PETITIONER]: Who approached her? [MOTHER]: She approached your dad. [PETITIONER]: Who did? [MOTHER]: [S.L.]. [PETITIONER]: She did? [MOTHER]: Yeah, your dad told me that. [PETITIONER]: And he told her, no? Is he out of his [explicative] mind? What [explicative] is wrong with him? [MOTHER]: I guess because he's paying for the attorney and I guess because they're not paying her money. [PETITIONER]: Does he, does he, does he not understand what's going to happen to me if he doesn't help out?

You better get that, that- [MOTHER]: You're breaking up. You broke up a little bit, honey. [PETITIONER]: That, mom, listen to me. If he doesn't help her out, I am screwed. Get that message through to him, okay? [MOTHER]: And, and which part-he won't do that. [PETITIONER]: It's obvious, it's obvious.

Let me, I need to make a couple more phone calls while I can really fast. [MOTHER]: Okay, honey. Honey, don't get upset. It's not going to do you any good. [PETITIONER]: No, no, this needs to happen or I am screwed. If my family doesn't take care of her right now, I am screwed. [MOTHER]: Well, your family means your dad, because your mother doesn't have the money. [PETITIONER]: But you can, if she'll move into the house, you can stay there in the house with them, help her, get on her-do you understand what I'm saying? [MOTHER]: Yes.

How long do you think I can stay here, honey? [PETITIONER]: As long as it needs to be. As long as that rent is paid. [MOTHER]: Do you want me to lose my home? [PETITIONER]: No, I don't. You can bounce back and forth. You've been there for months before.

You can do it again. You can bounce back- [MOTHER]: And I, and I didn't like doing that, but I'll do what I-. [PETITIONER]: Well, I'm sorry, but- [MOTHER]:-can. [PETITIONER]:-that's what needs to happen right now. Let me make a couple phone calls real quick. I'll call you. [MOTHER]: Okay.

Okay, honey. [PETITIONER]: Listen. [MOTHER]:-because it's not your phone. [PETITIONER]: Listen. Listen. Yeah, I'm, I only have like another five minutes to be on the phone, so I need you to talk to them all tonight. And my dad needs to understand him shooting [S.L.] down, that was a huge mistake.

The only chance I have is for my family to take them in, take care of those kids. If she wants to be part of this family, recant everything she said. [MOTHER]: Your, I can't even tell you anything that was said. [PETITIONER]: No, you can't, but listen to me. That is what needs to happen. My family needs to take care of her and those kids, those are my kids, let them- [MOTHER]: I know they're your kids, honey. [PETITIONER]: And do this, make it (unintelligible) to my dad one way or another if this doesn't happen I am screwed. [MOTHER]: And what happens if you don't get out on the 20th? [PETITIONER]: Well, then I don't, I don't know.

You know. You know, it, if our family opens their arms for her and helps out with these kids, I'm sure she'll be more than happy to help recant all this stuff. But if we screw her over, then she's not. [MOTHER]: Well- [PETITIONER]: I mean she's already tried. [MOTHER]: I understand what you're saying now, but I can't say back to you anything else. [PETITIONER]: I know. [MOTHER]: I understand what you're saying, but I can't say anything to you to make you-go ahead. [PETITIONER]: That's what needs to happen and get through to my dad that he needs to help take care of her right